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TOPIC: Questions for visual imagers.

Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #671

  • monkeymaiden
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1) When I say to you "Go fuck yourself!" does an image of you having sex with yourself pop into your head?

2) Do you imagine every single image that is said to you? Like is it a constant stream like thoughts but images instead?

3) Are the images/scenes you see accurate? Are you remembering images and scenes as you would like them to have been and how would you even know if you aren't changing the memory without knowing it?



Thanks
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #735

  • glados
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I'm able to visualise things (when I try), although I don't know if I visualise it the same way "normal" people visualise. I'd never describe my visualising as "seeing" or looking at an image I'm creating, but I'm able to mentally represent objects spatially with shapes and colour for example, through my short term memory. Here's my perspective:



1) No.

- If you said "Go fuck yourself" to me over the phone for example, I'd feel hostility and get a bit more infuriated. I don't picture anything, it doesn't pop into my head.

- When I tried to think of you saying 'Go fuck yourself' (making myself 'visualise'), I imagined a scenario where you're standing in front of me, looking at me with an aggravated expression, saying "go fuck yourself". This does not 'pop into my mind' unless I specifically try to think about you saying it.

2) No.

I don't imagine the vast majority of things that are said to me; I do have intrinsic responses (whether in abstract concepts or in sensory concepts). The extent of the mix depends on the thing. For example:

- "Think of a programmer": I think about what tools they use, their salaries, their offices and cubicles, their relative lack of social skills, the outsourcing of programmers from developing countries. They're mainly abstract thoughts, with some sensory imagery.
- "Think of a beach": I think about the yellow sand, how it feels to walk on them, the sounds of the crowd, towels and people sunbathing, the tides and the sounds they make and their white foam, the drive to the beach, etc. They're mostly sensory imagery.

I don't see them as pictures. I think of them, I can articulate particular objects, their curves, colours, etc, in my mind, and place them in a spatial location. I keep track of them in my short term memory -- when I focus on a particular part, I might forget the other bits as I'm no longer continuously thinking about them and holding it in my short term memory.

When I first think of a scene, I have a vague blueprint of where things are in a scene, but that contains about zero detail for them. Unless I concentrate, I don't inherently assign things like colour, shape, size, contour, etc. I just think of them as articulate-able, identificable and describable objects that I can manipulate for as long as it's in my short term memory. I can assign colour, shape, size, contour to them and arrange them like I was trying to paint a picture, but it never looks like a picture. I don't see anything, but I can conjure this mental representation of a scene.

Maybe that's what "normal" people describe as a picture, maybe not.

3) It depends on if I'm conjuring new scenes / images, or trying to recall images.

- When I'm conjuring new things and purposefully trying to visualise (I don't normally visualise when thinking!), everything has very low detail. I have a rough sense of where things are, but that sense is not very visual. It's more 'intuitive'. Again, they have no detail. I can add objects, manipulate them, and fill them in (maybe even animate them), but the way I do that is by thinking about objects and holding them in my memory, and thinking of it as being in a particular location / space. The moment I forget, they disappear from my mental scene.

The more and longer I concentrate, the more detailed and 'accurate' I can get for conjured representations. They don't get much more vivid for me -- they're always dim.

To re-iterate, I don't usually do this when thinking. Abstract thoughts and concepts just "flow" to me. Some of these thoughts and concepts may have visual elements, but I don't try to arrange them into a picture or look at it like a picture. They just flow in my short term memory and thought 'spark' / voice.

---

Now, as for remembering:

It depends on the strength of the memory. I have a sense of how accurate my memory is, and hence how accurate my "mental representation" (I don't like calling it a picture, because I think that's not the best term to describe what I experience). I don't know every detail, so I fill them in with what is likely, expected, and plausible. I *think* I'm remembering things pretty accurately when I sense that I'm able to recall something, but who knows if I actually am!


Sorry for the slight wall of text :) I actually have a question too. Would you describe me as falling under the apathtasia spectrum? I can sort of visualise when I try, but I generally don't visualise. At least, I don't try to create scenes and they don't pop up in my head -- I create more mental models and representations that I know are not visually accurate.
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #744

  • ellesse
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So you see like an actual picture in your head as if you were looking at something with open eyes?

And I'm not really sure where I'd put you, because you can visualise...it's a tough one :/
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #776

  • glados
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@ellesse: No, I don't see pictures. What I 'visualise' is completely different to my vision :) It's just thoughts that you can't see, but thoughts that you can analyse and manipulate like if it was an image (that you can't see).

@monkeymaiden: Thank you for the warm welcome; That's brilliant! I really hate to be a downer but.. vaguely. I visualise things as I'm reading and that's like seeing a movie in my head, but it's very disjointed and I sometimes read as if I was just parsing for meaning instead of visualising.

I tend to visualise broader scenes, but I don't exactly follow individual actions, dialogue, etc as if it's a movie. I kinda just parse them. Sorry for a not-yes/no answer, I'm really good at doing this lol :(
Last Edit: 2 years 3 weeks ago by glados.
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #782

  • glados
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monkeymaiden wrote:
i feel that you are not a total Aphantastic but are a middling one. Sliding scale of ability I guess!

Seems kinda like it! I'm definitely not a total aphantastic, maybe just weak at visualisation -- making me toggle on and off while reading a book for example.
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #794

  • julia_11
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www.ted.com/talks/temple_grandin_the_wor...s_all_kinds_of_minds
Watched this last night after Nathan recommended it . Most of it is from an autism perspective, but she does describe starting at about 2min30 about just how well she can visualise and can even visualise her design in her head and walk through it. Temple is obviously at totally the opposite end of the visualisation spectrum to me
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #805

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I enjoyed the movie as well.
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Questions for visual imagers. 2 years 3 weeks ago #846

  • Nathan Buzby
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*sniff sniff* makes me all warm and fuzzy to see a kudos haha. Glad folks have found value in the video!
Tone Disclaimer: If you read something I write and feel I am trolling, please read it again and imagine instead you are talking to a teacher or professor. I do not write from a place of self-superiority or ego, I favor dialectical conversations that seek to find underlying causation and truth.
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Questions for visual imagers. 11 months 3 weeks ago #4522

First, just to be clear: a full visual phantasia person (a "normal" person) can see images in their heads like looking a photograph? There are things in the image with colours and composition? A person can see multiple things at once in their mind's eye?

Second, a full aphantasia person cannont imagine colours or shapes?

I think I'm around the same range in the spectrum as Glados (feedback would be appreciated!). I identify with "I don't see them as pictures. I think of them, I can articulate particular objects, their curves, colours, etc, in my mind, and place them in a spatial location.." (and other descriptions) I can also see textures in addition to colours but I can't zoom out from the textures to see the whole object. For example, I can see the geometrical pattern of a woven material with the colours and the yarn but I can't see the whole blanket. Also, I can see the wrinkles on my mother's face but I can't see the whole face.

I would also describe it as a process of drawing shapes with certain colours in my mind. I can only see the parts that I'm in the middle of drawing but I can't see the whole picture.

But I don't "see" any images/pictures/shapes/colours when I read even if I've seen the scene in a movie. Sometimes, if I've seen a movie made from the book, I can "hear" the character saying the words as I had heard from watching the movie. Generally, I can "hear" music or "hear" phrases people have said in their own voice from my memory.

glados wrote:

I don't see them as pictures. I think of them, I can articulate particular objects, their curves, colours, etc, in my mind, and place them in a spatial location. I keep track of them in my short term memory -- when I focus on a particular part, I might forget the other bits as I'm no longer continuously thinking about them and holding it in my short term memory.

When I first think of a scene, I have a vague blueprint of where things are in a scene, but that contains about zero detail for them. Unless I concentrate, I don't inherently assign things like colour, shape, size, contour, etc. I just think of them as articulate-able, identificable and describable objects that I can manipulate for as long as it's in my short term memory. I can assign colour, shape, size, contour to them and arrange them like I was trying to paint a picture, but it never looks like a picture. I don't see anything, but I can conjure this mental representation of a scene.
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Questions for visual imagers. 11 months 2 weeks ago #4560

  • Blackstage
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Hello and welcome, VegetationWiz! Those 2 descriptions are basically how I understand it. I am full aphant, so seeing parts (like wrinkles!) and colors and shapes sounds ultra cool to me! I see blackness. Also hearing music and voice with original persons/instruments would be incredible for me. As a musician I would certainly LOVE to get away from my own (inner) voice and enjoy the real stuff!
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