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TOPIC: has anyone successfully learned to visualize?

has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 5 months ago #3848

  • NEWPORT28
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I am able to dream and often remember them. However unable to visualize.
has anyone learned to successfully visualize? if so what was your process?

Regards,
Mike
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 5 months ago #3857

  • Sekhmet
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I'm the same as you, no visuals while awake, yet quite vivid and colorful dreams.

I'd also love to know if anyone's managed to learn how to visualize. People say "try guided meditation and visualization exercises", but it's impossible to start if there's nothing to start with... so how could one of us spark the ability? I think once I can get a bare minimum of seeing something, developing it would be a matter of practice.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 5 months ago #3868

  • Kiingarian
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Nope, Can't dream or visualize. Never too sure to be happy or sad about that, As I only know dreams as they are described to me by others. Its like trying to talk to my grandma about computers it all goes over my head.
Anyways, personally since I have only lived in concept thought, I might have a slight tendency to dislike the different, but really it seems to me that it leaves me more computing power to reason other things out.
Last Edit: 1 year 5 months ago by Kiingarian.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 5 months ago #3875

  • moyer
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I have been practicing a process that feels like it is what i should be doing to visualize... whatever that may mean. during hypnogogic state while falling asleep i feel like i have actively triggered mental images, and also brought a few into more focus. a very few times the images have crisped up into reality like. during one nap/meditative practice, i "noticed" a little light spot in my normal black inky void, and was able to enlarge it to maybe the size of a quarter viewed at about arms distance. I was able to focus the image and it looked like i was looking through a little hole out to a daytime scene of some sort. the subject matter on the outside seemed to be in normal proportion as if I was seeing it for real. all this happened in a 2-3 second span, and I have not recreated it since.
also, I was trying to visualize my wife's face and at one point it actually flashed. I know it was the mental images because it was actually not the way I was trying to construct her face from facts, it was mental image of a picture of her that i recognized. ive heard some people also seem to do better with memory of a photo of someone rather than of creatively imagining that persons face. if any of that makes sense...
-joel
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 4 months ago #4115

  • Jorge.T
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Hi! When I'm close to get sleep and close my eyes I always start to see aleatory flashes. Sometimes I try to manipulate this flashes and I think I get to form simples shapes, like triangles or circles, of course for a few seconds. I believe that maybe this is the way to start to improve the ability to generate images consciously.

Excuse my English.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4217

  • ijk079
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can dream but cant daydream or visualise and havent found any possible way to
"The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven." John Milton
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4223

  • moyer
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I will be doing some magical experimenting on saturday.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4224

  • Sekhmet
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Looking forward to hearing about your experience Moyer!
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4230

  • moyer
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I ate one little tiny mushroom yesterday....i thought id hardly feel it, but ended up tripping about as much as the first time i ever tripped (1/8th)

I was able to do about 10 minutes of experimentation with closed eye visuals. I tried glancing up where the sun was poking through the trees to get an after image to work with. I closed my eyes and tried my technique of actively trying not to focus on the after image, and it grew in my field of view significantly. About a second after realizing it had grown so much there was a flash within the boundaries of the after image smear shape, and it was crystal clear "real daylight" for a split second. I have had about this same success with a meditative type state, if not more success. With the meditative state, the image that popped into focus was like a hole in a wall and I could make out a seemingly real street scene through it before it disappeared.

tomorrow I will be having a larger dose, I'll report back.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4237

  • moyer
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Trip report: too large of dose to attempt any control. closed eye visuals were completely consuming, even into dimensionally shifting motion. if anything, a bit psychotic feeling.

-j
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4242

  • jmever
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Joel, Your experiences may be due to having a slight degree of mental imagery and in only certain situations. For as we know, in aphantasia, each sense may be affected in varying degrees rather than manifesting as a total absence. Also, since we Aphans almost universally report visualizing in the dream state, your success, even with minimal effect, to visualize in the hypnogogic state could be but a precursor to more vivid imagery in REM sleep.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4243

  • jmever
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Jorge. T, These random flashes are known as phosphenes and are due to biophotons, or biologically produced light particles emitted by cells within the eyes. They appear at first as spots or blobs of colored light and your brain morphs them into geometric shapes and or patterns in order to better understand them.

"Biophotons exist in your eyes because your atoms constantly emit and absorb tiny particles of light, or photons. This photon exchange is just a part of normal cellular function. Your eyes can’t tell the difference between photons from outside light and the biophotons emitted by your own atoms. Either way, your optic nerve simply relays these light signals to the brain, which must then decide if it accurately represents the real world around you, or if it’s just a phosphene."
~ By Hanneke Weitering | In Scienceline, scienceline.org
Posted December 29, 2014
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by jmever. Reason: add a sentence
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4244

  • jmever
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Moyer, I assume you are speaking of 'Magic Mushrooms'. Magic mushrooms (ethnobotanical name: Psilocybe mushrooms) cause hallucinations because they contain the psychotropic tryptamines psilocybin and psilocin. Even a small dosage can and will produce these naturally occurring effects. So, sorry, but your experience had nothing to do with an ability to mentally visualize in a normal state. Simple psychotropic hallucination only.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4245

  • moyer
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Jmever- thanks for the replies!
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4246

  • jmever
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Moyer - You're welcome. Sorry to shoot down your hopes, but there is little if anything in either the minuscule amount of scientific literature so far available or personal anecdotal materials to offer any hope for an improvement in or an initial development of mental imagery in us Aphans. Perhaps, with further academic and professional studies, method and means might be developed. But, before we can hope for an increase in testing and experimentation, first the scientific community must be convinced there might be a commercial aspect to the study of aphantasia. Research funding, unfortunately, depends disproportionately upon the expectation of financial gain.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4247

  • Sekhmet
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I'm not sure you can say it's a pointless exercise just yet. Like you said, there's no research into this, and probably won't because it's not profitable.
So we have to do our own research ourselves. Mushrooms can definitely produce long term if not permanent changes to one's brain, and that's been documented by the few studies.

While I think it's a bad idea to overdo it and potentially mess your brain up, I think it's worthwhile to experiment a little to see if some brain re wiring can be done. No one else is going to do it. Once I find a good source I'll be joining you in occasional experiments.

Anecdote that might give hope. One of my roommates took shrooms once over 5 years ago. During her trip she saw faces in the tree trunks, moving and trying to speak, with a benevolent intention. Now, years and years later, she can soberly look at a tree trunk and with a little concentration, bring out faces from the bark. If that's not an example of visual brain rewiring I don't know what is.

I plan on spending some trips concentrating on visualizing with my eyes closed, and see if I can slowly rewire my brain to see them while sober. Hopefully in a month or two I'll be posting back here with results. Don't give up home Moyer <3
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4248

  • moyer
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Sekhmet- you have nailed my sentiments and reactions to jmever's post for me thanks!
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4250

  • Sekhmet
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Yay Moyer!
Onward with careful experimentation!!
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4254

  • jmever
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Sekhmet, You can do all the experimentation you like, in fact, I urge you to do just that. However, it has all been done before by others including myself. And I can assure you that as I said in my previous response to Moyer, you will experience no improvement in your ability to mentally visualize. However, please, and by all means, do not take my word for it, experiment away. But also, please, do not go about it blindly! Seek the counsel of knowledgeable individuals in the field. And, by that, I do not mean a friend or two who might have taken magic mushrooms themselves for recreational purposes. Psychedelics are a wonderful tool and aid whether for medicinal, psychological or other purposes. BUT, as in most all things, caution and knowledge of all factors before experimentation is well advised.
In reference to your comment: "While I think it's a bad idea to overdo it and potentially mess your brain up, I think it's worthwhile to experiment a little to see if some brain re wiring" (sic) "can be done. No one else is going to do it. Once I find a good source I'll be joining you in occasional experiments."
I hope you plan to follow guidelines laid down by experts in the field. An excellent source of info on all matters psychedelic including research and resources is the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) which can be found at www.maps.org/
I might also recommend the following articles (among a vast number of professional source materials) ,
www.thefix.com/magic-mushroom-study-seek.../05/160517083044.htm , www.maps.org/research/psilo-lsd , and especially
disregardeverythingisay.com/post/3400069...-down-and-described#.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4258

  • andItsPeter
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I have no visualisation in my head, at any point (or other senses for that matter).
However in the last few weeks I've been getting small flashes, so small and fleeting that I'm not sure if it's actual images or just me imagining that I saw an image which sounds impossible, and it's been annoying me for the last few weeks.
Picture it...
how?
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4263

  • jmever
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anditsPeter, Here is a response I made earlier in this thread to a somewhat similar question:

These random flashes are known as phosphenes and are due to biophotons, or biologically produced light particles emitted by cells within the eyes. They appear at first as spots or blobs of colored light and your brain morphs them into geometric shapes and or patterns in order to better understand them.

"Biophotons exist in your eyes because your atoms constantly emit and absorb tiny particles of light, or photons. This photon exchange is just a part of normal cellular function. Your eyes can’t tell the difference between photons from outside light and the biophotons emitted by your own atoms. Either way, your optic nerve simply relays these light signals to the brain, which must then decide if it accurately represents the real world around you, or if it’s just a phosphene."
~ By Hanneke Weitering | In Scienceline, scienceline.org
Posted December 29, 2014
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by jmever. Reason: spelling
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4264

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That is very interesting jmever, thank you.
Picture it...
how?
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 3 months ago #4265

  • jmever
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My pleasure.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 2 months ago #4325

  • Aphantelica
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Not in the normal state. But I've had success using psychedelics. The fact that I (and many other aphantasiacs) can visualise on mushrooms, lsd, dmt suggests it is possible to activate the specific regions of the brain responsible for visualisation. TMS is one possible technique that might be used to stimulate these regions. Don't listen to people who claim this can't be reversed in the future). I'm a scientist and strongly believe its possible. Plenty of research going on atm. Pearson lab in Sydney, and obviously Zeman (Due to release results of studying 1000 aphantasiacs later this year). The fact that one can visualise vividly on psychedelics, suggests it maybe pathway related. At least thats my current hypothesis.

"A psychedelic explorers guide" - James Fadiman is a great starting point for those wishing to explore psychedelics.
Last Edit: 1 year 2 months ago by Aphantelica.
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has anyone successfully learned to visualize? 1 year 2 months ago #4327

  • jmever
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Did you bother to scan through this thread at all before jumping in totally flatfooted? There are several entries above addressing the psychedelic phenomenon of the hallucinatory process. In the admittedly minuscule amount of existing literature on the subject, it is almost universally accepted that while certain of the same neural pathways in the brain are activated in both hallucinations and visual imagery (as well as in normal visual perception), it does not follow that they are analogous. And myriad documented experimentation with entheogen and strictly chemical psychedelic agents has shown absolutely no proof of its leading to an improvement of the ability to visually image.
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